Most of the time, when you ask someone to describe a new band for you, you will often get a response with pre-existing genre only with “indie” tagged onto it. This band is “indie-pop”; those guys are “indie-folk.”
Well gee, thanks for the keen description friend…but care to tell me just what the hell the band is like?
For our part in this problem, I think we have become a little too touchy about the music we listen to*. So much so that “indie” has just simply become a synonym for “cool.” You really can’t blame music fans for this tendency. I for one have said in the past that I like “indie-country” simply out of the fear of being associated with embarrassing top-40 country music. In reality I’m talking about bands like Elliot Brood and the Sadies. Bands that despite having put a modern twist on the music they play, will still be considered by traditional standards to be in the Country genre. But if you throw “indie” in front of Country, problem solved, right? You can still live in Toronto and your friends won’t ridicule you with pick-up truck and cousin-love jokes.
Maybe it’s time to stop being so damned sensitive and just take music for what it is. If you like Justin Townes Earle - face it – you like some form of country music. So the next time you get asked about his music, drop indie. Instead tell them that it’s gritty Country music that follows the footsteps of Hank Williams. You can go a step further and say that while it is Country, it takes away the clichéd twang and replaces it with modern lyrics that reflect the singer’s troubled life. Sure it takes a little more effort, but you just told someone about WHY you’re listening to it in the first place.
I actually relish the idea of how fun it can be to describe a band that you’ve previously been a bit complacent with. Take Broken Social Scene for example. Sure you could call them a huge rock group, but doesn’t “a modern take on the big band” sound a little more fun? I’ll admit it sounds a bit on the pretentious side, but it’s a step towards sounding more appealing to me than an “indie-rock band.”
While I may enjoy playing around with language, I respect the fact that most people just want it quick. I also understand that there are many bands that just lack a simple fix. The Black Keys are a modern take on blues-rock while Best Coast plays west-coast California rock; but how the hell can you use a traditional genre to describe a band like Beach House or even the Arcade Fire? Why don’t we just ask the bands ourselves? It is their music after all, so that should make them an expert on what they’re playing for us.
MySpace pages usually end up being the best source for these explanations. Some bands like the Flaming Lips choose to simply add more than one genre to the mix to help us along, they say they play “experimental/psychedelic/rock.”
While you can usually rely on most bands giving a thorough description of their music, others will remain a little too simplistic. “Psychedelic” would probably be the last genre I would fit Caribou into, it hardly describes just what Dan Snaith has put into his music. On the other side of things, maybe he has the right idea and we should just trust him for keeping it simple.
Death From Above 1979 do the same damn thing. It looks like they’ll be playing more than a few reunion gigs this year, so what do you tell your friends about them? On MySpace DFA say they play “2-step” music. Again a little on the plain side, but this gives you the opportunity to describe them yourselves. Tell your friends about the heavy bass guitar licks backed by drumming that is both frantic while staying on tempo. Or you can fall back onto Wikipedia to find “dance-punk/noise rock.” The answers are out there somewhere; most of the time you can probably do it better yourself without the jargon.
The point is simply that we don’t need “indie” to describe anymore**. It doesn’t mean you have to crack out a thesaurus every time you exchange new bands with your friends; just don’t be afraid to use a few words when you do it. You’ve been likely listening to music long enough that you can describe what you’re hearing. If not, listen to it some more and try again.
* Blame Barry in High Fidelity. I don't feel bad about listening to Belle and Sebastien and neither should you!
** Unless you’re actually talking about the fact that some of these bands are on independent record labels.
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ReplyDeletealso, " Let me make you a mix."
ReplyDeleteMajor label debut
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, Matt, I think you are correct in everything you have asserted in these subsequent posts. Forgive me if I reiterate and repeat your points. I have to get this shit outta me. The casual use of the word “indie,” to describe a type of “sound” is a demon we all need to exercise. They often produced off the radar and non-commonly heard tones and bands. It is fine when categorically describing music produced and distributed by an independent label. Astutely, stated Alternative and Indie have become synonyms for mainstream or widely popular music. Beyond that, it is correctly stated that “indie” is used improperly, far too much and describes or explains zilch in context to the question, “what does X band sound like?” Indie sounds like nothing. Absolutely fucking nothing. Reflecting back (and I am guilty of this sin), it seems even more pretentious and douchy to say, “I listen to ‘indie’ bands.”, than to list off bands the questioner may or may not have ever heard of. Because, saying indie, ostensibly, bluffs your way out of having to say or listen to anything or have any opinion about anything involving music, a sound or a band. The word remains a great hollow reflection of a hipster/scenster commandment, “thou shalt listen to Indie (more specifically, it is generally pavement, which is slacker rock and roll)!” More proof our god is fallible and that I am a sinner.
Continuing on, I hate labels (not major labels, but classifications), and think they are evil. But it is our human nature to liken things, categorize and therefore marginalize and destroy them. I think the chew up and spit out consumption of music these days is not conducive to people understanding what punk(a fabricated and brilliant marketing ploy), folk or slacker rock or anything else really was. Currently, Indie and alternative are great labels to apply to bands or a sound for people who have a shallow (wikipedia) understanding of what music their Favorite (more like flavor of the Internet this fashion season) bands make and their influence(s). Being able to list The Clash’s influences is not a sufficient proof of musical literacy, just literacy and Internet trolling. Meaningless regurgitation.
Matt, I agree with your descriptions of what Indie actually is and what Alternative actually was/is. (by the way, what is the cut off point? what if sub-pop or matador is bought out? Band run labels? ((name dropper!)))
But in every ounce of honesty I have, let's take Deerhunter as an example. It is pop. Deerhunter (cox) makes beautiful pop songs and records. Instead of saying "indie" as in cool or new, or popular, just say, “pop.” It is not as elitist, but far more effective and intelligent. We should not search for alternatives so much as liken and describe bands together that ACTUALLY sound similar.
Now one might ask, "dan, you only recently started listening to Deerhunter, what comes to mind when you think of them, what do they sound like?"
I would reply,"They sound like a really good pop band. I hear hints of early Radiohead and Bright Eyes.”
Subjective, yes.
But, take Fleet Foxes, a band generally filed under "Indie,"-fuck that. They are sonically akin to Crosby Stills Nash and Young (CSNY). They both harmonize the same way and write folky rock songs. Done. Not indie, It is rock and roll.
Grizzly Bears last album, Veckhatimest, and many songs from their preceding albums sound like harmonies reminiscent of The Beach Boy’s Pet Sounds.
“Do you like The Beach Boy’s Pet Sounds? (A classic and hotly debated album and question).
“yes”
Then Buy the album!
More to come. I am about to miss a job interview because I was writing this.
Dan! I love your analysis there! Also bonus points for using Deerhunter in it.
ReplyDeleteI seriously think it just comes down to us being over-sensitive about some things. A couple of years ago I got super prickly when a friend of mine said she thought that Fleet Foxes sounded like the Beach Boys. Then I found myself listening to Endless Summer and realized...that she was kind of right.
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ReplyDeleteTo describe myself - I like to keep it simple, I love music more than anything. I'm the one who is constantly at a gig. The one that you see getting on the streetcar fucking loaded on peach schnapps. I like talking about it just as much and I can always use more.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the article. I'm extremely passionate about music, I love to listen to it, and find new and unfamiliar sounds to stimulate the body and mind. However, I do not spend adequate amounts of times discussing music with other individuals that genre's come up into discussion, secondly I agree with your comment about it being very challenging to describe bands like arcade fire and resorting to the word indie is what I would always do.
My understanding of the word Indie has never been to try and be cool, but I understand how it be seen that when I would use it to describe a band it would be misused, and incorrect.
Instead of wasting my time (which I do not have alot to spare) and trying to come up with a perfect way to describe music, or a band/song I send the song to someone via youtube links. Then the judgment can be made up to the individual, and what do I care if they want to call it Indie, or bluegrass electro trip hop. Indie has always been a way for me to describe music that is outside the regular realm of genres we see in an HMV store.
Long story short, I agree with your point of view. I believe you are right in what you are stating, and I will no longer use the word "indie" to describe music, or your glasses/overall demeanor as a music blogger.
You were doing really well in the middle there...I like the way you send people youtube links to music so they can figure it out for themselves. But in a world outside of FB, shouldn't you be able to carry on a conversation with someone?
ReplyDeleteIf you're that into peach schnapps, I'm sure it will come easy. Use the word if you want to still...I just think you can do better than that.
I was thinking about Arcade Fire. They kind of evoke this memory of being in an old church. I find myself constantly wishing i was in cathedral listening to them play their records over and over.. sound that just seems to build. I always listen to their albums at an incredibly loud volume. But I do not think of them as a loud band. Regardless, the sound they create is literally, awesome; the vocals and and band just build and build. I do not know how to classify them, I only know that they sound unique. my method of finding a band that sonically and lyrically relates as a point of reference is useless.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree! There's just some music that is hard to nail down. That's where I agree with the argument that it was nice to have a word like "indie" to hide behind.
ReplyDeleteBUT on the other hand, I wouldn't get a wicked description for the Arcade Fire like the one you just gave me there.
Also, I think the fact that Neon Bible was recorded using some of Montreal's best organs, really help out in making a grandiose sound that evokes thoughts of a cathedral.